A politically incorrect job interview

We’d gone through the niceties as we walked to his office. Now, we kicked into full interview mode, as he pulled out his notepad and pen. The man had no idea we were about to have a conversation about work life balance.

“Before we get too far along in the process, I’d like to ask you a philosophical question,” I stated before he could get his first question in.

The man behind the desk looked at me with part shock and part curiosity.

“Okay,” he said with some hesitation.

“I’m just wondering how you think about productivity and shared success versus time in the office?” I ask.

“I’m not sure what you mean,” he said. He tilted his head to one side, reminding of a dog when it looks like you and says, “I am hearing words but have no idea what you’re talking about.”

“Meaning are you a company and a manager that likes seeing people at their desks and in the office 8, 9, 10 or more hours or day or are you okay with more flexibility in terms of hours in the office as long as expectations and results are met or exceeded?” I explain.

“Here’s the deal,” I continue. “I am a mother of young children. Each weekday, I drop them off at school in the morning and pick them up from childcare at the end of the day. Dinner together as a family is sacrosanct. I will work more hours than most people and deliver more than you probably expect. To do so, I will work early mornings, late nights, and weekends to get my job done. However, most days I will be in the office from approximately 8:30am to 4:00 or 4:30pm.”

Putting work life balance first

“I think this is a bit premature to start talking about work life balance and hours in the office,” he states.

“I understand. However, your and my time are valuable, and if that doesn’t sound like something that fits with your culture or style, I don’t want to waste our time,” I conclude.

“Actually, we are a very collaborative culture, which means most of our employees do spend a lot of time in the office, working together,” he says, as he sits up a bit straighter and smiles.

“That is wonderful,” I smile. “But I think I will give you your time back and let you focus on other candidates. Thank you for your honesty.”

I stand up and offer my hand, which he shakes without words. With that, I turn around and walk out his office door and head out through the lobby to the parking lot.

I’m not disappointed. Rather, I am calm and relieved.

I call my system work life imbalance

I am a workaholic. I love my work, and I love working. However, as my children went from toddlers to early school age, something in me snapped. Because I also love and adore my children.

I decided I didn’t need to choose between being the mother I wanted to be and the professional I also desired. I decided to work and live on my terms or what I now call my work life imbalance, where hours are fluid, but boundaries are clearly set.

Not surprisingly, this revelation occurred when I worked for Amazon.com from 2000 to 2002. I served as part of an international team opening and helping grow international eCommerce businesses.

Even then, when the children were young, I made a point of fixing their breakfast. My younger son and I would hang out at Starbucks together for 30 minutes between dropping off his brother and when his school started. We’d read the paper together or just chat about life. He became an expert at ordering my cappuccino.

I picked my children up from childcare by 5:00 or 5:30, so we could have dinner together and still have time for a walk to the playground or a game. During homework, if they had it, I might do a few emails. Sometimes, I would take a conference call with Japan while cooking dinner, as the boys relaxed or played.

However, my attempt to balance hours in the office and hours with my family became anything but balanced.

Others will not appreciate your personal boundaries

Colleagues made sarcastic remarks as I left the office at 4:30 or 5:00, such as, “Wish I could be you and leave the office early.” or “Wow, I guess marketing really is an easier job.” And so it went.

Over time, even my manager started commenting on people “noticing” my empty office chair. Work life balance appeared to not be part of this company’s culture.

Keep in mind, I was still working 10 to 12 hours per day and traveling around the world nearly once a month. Also, I met expectations and received strong reviews from everyone who worked with me around the world.

In response, I wanted to defend myself. They didn’t know I got up at 4:30 to exercise and have calls with Europe. Or stayed up late to talk to Asia. They didn’t see the weekends I spent working in the office when the boys were with their dad or grandparents.

I realized none of it mattered. This was a culture of hours in the office. Not hours productive or hours with results.

After leaving Amazon, I took my lessons with me to a new company. In fact, at the next job, I set expectations of what hours I would be in the office, and the realities of my personal priorities, from the moment I interviewed.

Focusing on productivity and joy instead of hours at the desk

This question of balancing motherhood with a professional career is the most frequent inquiry I’m asked from women I mentor or when speaking to women at a conference or networking event. Mothers have struggled with work life balance from the moment women entered the workforce.

More recently, amid Covid19, the situation worsened, with parents having to acheive work life balance from their home, 24 x 7. In response, I recently shared my opinion regarding work and time flexibility with my team. In fact, I created a simple statement or mantra for my team to use to remind us what is most important.

“Productivity and joyousness not butts in seats”.

When I stated how much I believe in people doing what is best for them, I saw absolute relief and joy emanating from the many faces on my team call. I wish my previous managers or leaders would have proactively stated the same.

Why do we so often as leaders stress one way of working and one time frame, which is the typical 9:00 am to 5:00 pm. Instead, why not create core times when teams need to meet and then allow agility around that?

I have an associate on my team who is trying to figure this out. She does two hours of early work, then two hours with her kindergarten-aged child that includes 30-minute virtual class time over Zoom. Then, it’s back to two more hours of work, and so on. She has created modules of time throughout her day. I’m sure it’s exhausting, but it’s working for her, so she can focus on one thing at a time.

In addition to all the roles mothers have played in the past, today, many moms and dads are also serving as teachers, tutors, counselors and playmates.

8 Guidelines for Achieving Work Life Balance

Over the years, I’ve established a set of guidelines I try to maintain as I continue to seek balance amid my imbalanced life. I have used many of these when mentoring other women who are early in their careers and child raising. However, no matter where you are at either stage, these are good reminders.

1. Set boundaries

Per my story above about wanting to set expectations of when I would be in the office versus with my family, this is all about setting boundaries. You need to decide what areas in your personal life are not negotiable. Maybe for you, like me, it’s dinner time. Maybe it’s early morning with the children. Or, maybe it’s Friday night “date night” with your spouse, partner or significant other. The next step could be sitting down with your family and deciding together what those moments or hours will be.

Your hardest job will be protecting those moments and keeping your boundaries strong. I find over communicating those boundaries to my colleagues and manager is best. While some may find it too personal or too much information, I would rather have that reaction than someone not understanding why I declined a meeting or don’t show up. Also, I think this sets a great precedence by leaders to give your teams permission to do what’s right for them.

2. Don’t apologize

Once you have set those boundaries, please do not apologize for doing what’s best for you and your family. As women, we are too quick to say, “I’m sorry,” about things that do not require an apology. You do not need to apologize for attempting to create healthy personal time that shows your family or yourself is a priority.

Early in my boundary setting, I apologized constantly. If asked to join a call at a certain time during my family time, I’d go on and on about how sorry I was but that was dinner time with my children. Today, I simply state that the time does not work for me, and we’ll have to find something else. If I get pushed, I again state without emotion or regret that it is family time, which is non-negotiable. There is always another time.

3. Give up the guilt

Hand-in-hand with feeling apologetic comes the guilt. Even if you succeed at no longer apologizing, you feel guilty for being the one that made everyone adapt to a new meeting time. I know releasing guilt is hard for everyone, especially those of us who grew up in households where guilt was hardwired in our religion, so I am asking you to do just that. Instead of guilt, try celebrating instead. Think about it. You just successfully put yourself and your family first. Good for you!

4. Don’t lose yourself

Between work, children, other family, and our spouses or partners, it’s easy to put ourselves last. One of the reasons for setting boundaries is to put YOU first. For example, one of my boundaries is my workout time. I may have to get up at 4:00am to do it, but that is my time and my decision. I could do it at noon or in the afternoon.

Today, I also put a boundary around my morning long beach walk with my dog, Benji. There are always meetings scheduled over this time, which is blocked on my calendar, and if it’s really important, I will take my headset and listen to the meeting. However, I still let everyone know that I will most likely not be speaking as I’m on my morning walk with the dog. If this is your challenge area, start small. Choose one item that is about carving out space and time just for YOU. Then, once you’ve done it successfully once, see if you can add a second sacred time for yourself.

5. Be kind to yourself

Just as women love to apologize and feel guilty for everything we are not doing that we think we should, we sometimes beat ourselves up for not being superwoman. Be nice to yourself. You deserve to set boundaries for yourself and your loved ones. This is probably my greatest challenge. I have amazing compassion and grace towards others and their boundaries, but I will often tell myself I am not doing enough. I should not stop working, or I should be working on that presentation instead of sitting with my husband having a glass of wine. Treat yourself as you treat others or as you want others to treat you.

6. Work on your adult relationships

As it’s easy to forget about ourselves, it’s also easy to put children and work ahead of our relationships, such as our spouses. I often found, when my children were small, that my marriage came in last too often. We worked hard to carve out time for just the two of us, and we also set rules so we did not spend that whole time talking about the children, our jobs, or household operational topics.

I will never forget a girlfriend who, when asked how everything was in her marriage, replied: “We are operationally excellent.” In other words, the bills are paid, kids get their homework done and to activities on time, the house is clean, etc. But what operationally excellent marriages lack is usually intimacy, passion, and trust. Yes, I’m talking about sex, too, ladies!

7. Let things go

This has been perhaps my hardest lesson. I have high expectations of my ability to keep my house and life clean, organized and well prepared. However, over the years, I have learned the stress of trying to keep your house perfectly clean and organized makes me a cranky person. Think about areas where you might be holding onto your OCD a bit too much.

Does it really matter if the kids spilled flour or cereal all over the countertop? Will the kids have no clothes to wear if you skip laundry one weekend, even if it means there is a big pile in the laundry room? Does cereal or pizza for dinner, AGAIN, leave permanent damage? Are those muddy paw prints from the dog going to destroy your ability to function until you clean them? The answer to all of this is, no. For me, this means sometimes my bed does not get made or the shoes are a mess in the foyer. But somehow the sun still rises and sets. So, let it go!

8. Build a succession plan

Maybe this sounds like an unrelated item compared to the others, but I learned that leaders must always build teams that can run effectively without them. The greatest joy is when I’ve seen organizations and teams I’ve built not just survive after I’ve gone but thrive and grow. Also, sometimes, when you are adhering to your boundaries, you’ll need to let others step up. Maybe you don’t have to go to that meeting at 5pm when you’re picking up the kids. Ask one of your team members. This could be an opportunity for increased visibility, networking and leadership for that person.

The point is no matter what your role or how senior you are at work, you do not need to always be the one to do the work or make the appearance. Delegate. Build a bench. Have your managers do the same. Btw, this works with your children, too. You don’t have to do everything around the house. Give them jobs.

It’s time to define your version of work life balance

When it comes to balancing work and personal life, there is no cookie cutter recipe nor is there a right or wrong way to do it. It’s whatever is right for you. However, you do need to be prepared to receive pushback. Your manager may not have this vision of success. You will have to drive the expectation setting and keep track of your productivity, regardless of when you are at your desk or not.

Also, if the person or company for which you work does not believe in people figuring out what’s right for them, especially now, then it might be time to look for a new job. I know that sounds scary, but we could have an entirely additional conversation about how to always land on your feet no matter what the economic or business climate.

For now, figure out what your balance might look like. Start with one time, and hold it sacred. See if you can keep your promise to yourself that this time is non-negotiable. Once you have succeeded at the first one, add a second.

By the way, this also works within your work time itself. Carve out time on your calendar to think, write, email, or enjoy some random chats with colleagues. My goal is no more than two hours of meetings without one hour of what I call “buffer” time.

I look forward to hearing how your balancing act is going.